FEAR SOCIETY (Venice Biennial 2009 - official program Pavilion of Urgency (Jota Castro) - Chiara Agnello - Rainer Ganahl
Interview - about this show between Chiara Agnello and me.
The Fear Society
Chiara Agnello intervista Rainer Ganahl
(unedited) - an edited version is being printed in one of the two catalogs for this show
Chiara Agnello: Il tuo lavoro va nella direzione della creazione di uno spazio di dibattito, di partecipazione, concentrandosi sui processi di apprendimento. Attraverso i numerosi reading, lavori su personaggi come Karl Marx, Pierpaolo Pasolini, Antonio Gramsci. Dal 1995 porti avanti la serie Seminars/Lectures dove fotografi intellettuali come Noam Chomsky, Cornel West, Jacques Derrida, Jacques Ranciere in conferenza e il pubblico presente in sala. Quale credi sia il ruolo dell’intellettuale nel mondo contemporaneo? Come contestualizzi il tuo lavoro all’interno della nostra società?
Rainer Ganahl: Before we can speculate on the role of the intellectual we ought to clarify what we call an intellectual. The very creation and definition of an intellectual class has been part of an ongoing crucial division of labor and power which comes with roles and responsibilities, with sense and non-sense, justice and injustice and abuse. I myself identify with a Gramscian notion of an intellectual who doesn’t just limit himself to graduates from elite schools and people who escaped manual work. Gramsci locates so-called organic intellectuals everywhere, in any profession, amidst any kind of group bound by common interest – independent of the nature of their work. What these intellectuals all might share in common is a certain critical distance to what goes on in and beyond their fields and practices. Thus, the role of intellectuals is to stay focused, to stay critical in respect to even their own functioning and expectations. Needless to underscore that we live under permanent influence, in an age of advertisement, sublime and not so sublime manipulations and seductions and lobbying – hence a need for distancing, critical observation and discursive interventions is paramount. Basically, I consider everybody a potential intellectual and think we all have a lot to look out for and ought to be careful of.
I’d like my work to function in society like sand works in machines. I would like people to slow down a bit, to get disturbed even frustrated, to invite them to see the world in a different way. Even when it comes to languages, people think that I’m talented. I know the opposite is the case and can proof that even after studying 1000 hours basic Chinese and I still sound very basic. As much as the art market goes, my sand dreams are reality.
Chiara Agnello: Le tue opere – spesso lontane dai meccanismi più commerciali – diventano piuttosto azioni di critica culturale, sociale e politica e strumenti di educazione. Tenti di formare un’opinione pubblica attraverso il tuo lavoro?
Rainer Ganahl: Again, in most works I’m content to just show and record things inviting for questions and offer spaces to respond. Even in some of my politically most explicit works I focus only on the languages and interfaces used by those in control and power. Whether it is Bush’s terminology of “War on terror” and “Axis of evil” or the technological poetry of our financial markets (Collateralized Dept Obligations – CDOs) I don’t offer opinions, I don’t even need to demonstrate my opposition. For me it is enough to repeat them, to record them, to just reflect them back, or layer them onto other things. And even when it comes to teachers and students (Seminar/Lecture series) I rather try to just show how it looks, who goes there who is allowed to go there and in what context everybody finds him/herself. Even when it comes to my own reading seminars – and there is a big urge to teach on my part and to share knowledge advantages if they exist – I try to provide a platform of exchange and not necessarily one of unchallenged master-voices. But again, there is always my ideal to have an impact with my work, to have at least a similar impact on some individuals the way some works of art and literature have had and still can have on me. But these are all things that cannot be measured, evaluated or even expressed properly.
Chiara Agnello: Credi che mostre come The Fear Society possano realmente trasformare lo spazio artistico in spazio dedicato al dibattito politico?
Rainer Ganahl: Yes, but in order to have that happen one needs to enter the spectre of politics and media oneself. So I’m not so sure whether an open discussion and a public event will bring the desired results as such – so I tend to rather again hope for individuals that come through and take away something. Again, it might be helpful if such a show could “slow down” debates and if our artistic machines break down in a way tossing sand into everybody’s eyes. For example, I want every art dealer to wear one of my “Bad Bank” t-shirts so artists and collectors know what they are dealing with.
Chiara Agnello: Alla biennale di Istambul nel 2007 hai presentato Silenced Voices - Bicycling Istanbul's Topography of 21 Murdered Journalists, un lavoro capace di inserirsi negli interstizi della città: l’hai percorsa in bicicletta per soffermarti nei diveri luoghi dove sono stati uccisi nell’ultimo secolo 21 giornalisti . Lì con il gesso bianco hai scritto data e nome della persona uccisa. In una società dove sembrano dominare violenza, precarietà e incertezza, c’è ancora posto per la liberta?
Rainer Ganahl: Well, at one point in Istanbul, while writing the name of an assassinated journalist on the street with chalk (not even spray paint) I was halted and taken away by a police officer and only negotiations with the biennial people on the phone were clearing the situation. I got a first hand idea of what a repressive society is capable of. I think there is always place for freedom but sometimes it might be tight. I just got another nice and sophisticated example of reduced freedom: Recently, while in Shanghai working on a group show, I forwarded by email the work explanation of artist Peter Fend peppered with sensitive content that was caught by automatic search machines and as a result; two hours later, my phone line and my internet access was cut and became almost impossible to reconnect. Internet access was only possible via a router hiding my computer ID. The nice nature of freedom is that it functions as horizon everywhere; in fact the more you squeeze it the better it shines.
Chiara Agnello: Sempre pensando a Silenced Voices (ma anche dagli stessi reading), mi sembra emerga una riflessione interessante sul concetto di memoriale e, più in generale, di memoria. Scrivendo con il gesso, che di lì a poco scomparirà, metti in discussione il “memoriale” nel senso più classico di scultura autocelebrativa che toglie alla comunità un “peso” per trasferirlo in un oggetto. La tua azione, dinamica e dialettica, riporta invece l’evento tragico nella quotidianità di chi vive quel luogo.
Con i reading degli scritti di Pasolini o Rosa Luxemburg forse fai qualcosa di non molto lontano, concentrando l’attenzione sul significato, l'elaborazione, l'interiorizzazione dello stesso. Sembri lasciare da parte le celebrazioni per concentrarti sui contenuti ricavabili da quel preciso passato che entra nella coscienza degli spettatori. E’ così? La storia può insegnare?
Rainer Ganahl: One reason why I do what I do is trying to see things in perspective. Like Althusser says, the “future lasts long” and the longer we wait the more certain things – taken from daily life, the quotidian – makes sense. For Silenced Voices it was of course necessary to take on the gesture of the memorial but to evade any materiality of classical de facto public space memorials. Not only would they not have fit on my bicycle – while riding for days between these sites of vicious and murderous crimes – they also wouldn’t have made sense. I placed all emphasis on the performance aspect of my work which was unannounced for and unnoticed by the Biennial public – but of course noticeable for everybody else in the streets though without a proper context. I was definitely noticed by those who tried to chase or even lock me away. Nonetheless, this memorial bike-ride left some strong remaining markers that survive : the video, the poster, the title, the piece as a combination of de facto video / images and imaginations by those who didn’t experience it. These all are propositions that live in our heads and our archives without a need for heavy metal or marble stones.
Chiara Agnello: Il lavoro che presenti in questo progetto curato da Jota Castro mi ricorda uno dei tuoi interventi per il Padiglione Austriaco alla Biennale di Venezia del 1999. Cosa è cambiato a 10 anni di distanza? Che cosa diceva quel lavoro nel 1999 e che cosa dice questo nel 2009?
Rainer Ganahl: It is very interesting for me to return to Venice with a work so similar to the one 10 years ago and so unlike to the ones I made two years ago (Seminar/Lectures) or four years ago (Use a bicycle) at the Canale Grande. 1999 was completely dominated by the bombardments of Yugoslavia and the religiously motivated genocides and slaughtering of Muslims and races in a multi-cultural and multi-ethnic society. In 2009 we have a similar situation, and definitely one that has to be understood on a historical and even geo-political continuum. The brutal slaughtering of Muslims in Yugoslavia helped to radicalize many European and Non-European Muslims, and helped a climate that facilitated the attacks on the Twin Towers and the three thousand people in it eight years ago. The consequences of that are at least two wars we are still in it – in fact that are even getting worse while I am writing since the theater has opened up far into Pakistan. Taliban and other Islamist radical forces now control territories up to 50 miles to the capital Islamabad and their nuclear arms.
Well in both years I showed mainly t-shirts. In 1999, for the Austrian pavillion it was a piece called “Please, teach me ... 50 languages spoken in countries that don't have any Pavilion at the Venice Biennial” . The t-shirts were accompanied by 5 short video clips entitled, “Basic Conflicts (justice, the nation, currencies, languages, gods)” in which I repeat the same sentence in all the many languages I had been studying. ( “I’m always right,” “I my country is the greatest,” I only believe in Dollars,” “You only need to know English,” “My god is the greatest”). At that time, I just started studying Chinese but I havn’t yet engaged with Basic Arabic, something that changed in 2003 after the attack on Iraq. In these days, the US military pays quite some money for people studying Pashto and other languages spoken in war theaters.
For “Fear Society” I address another nomenclature - that of our current financial crisis. Our economic systems are as much belief systems as religions are – and this global economic crisis has shaken it to the ground. Hence, I do stuff on ground level. My 20 t-shirts are street wear and bought at Canal street with the standard “I l love NY” imprint. On top of that I paint financial terms and names of key players of the crisis and conflict with the underlying message: “Bernard Madoff,” “Lehmann Brothers,” “Foreclosure,” “Credit swaps,” “Bad Banks,” “Toxic Assets” and so on. On the floor I spread red candies, lipstick and condoms in the form of a heart mimicking the “I love NY” logo. These products are profiting from the current crisis and have seen their sales volume increase by 30 %; since people enjoy mood enhancing comfort foods, self-indulgence, and are spending more time on intimacy.
Chiara Agnello: il linguaggio è una costante nel tuo lavoro. La tua lingua è il Vorarlbergian, una sorta di dialetto Austro-tedesco, ma parli altre 11 lingue - dal Russo, al Coreano, al Cinese, al Giapponese, al Italiano - che, in continui esercizi performativi, costituiscono la base di molti tuoi lavori. L’uso del linguaggio torna nelle frasi che ricami e dipingi sulle magliette, nelle frasi che riporti, nei reading che organizzi.
Hai detto più volte che il tuo interesse verso il linguaggio è legato alla sua capacità di riflettere differenze culturali, sociali, economiche, razziali, religiose… E’ anche un modo per ripensare il ruolo del linguaggio e della comunicazione? Puoi dirmi qualcosa di più a riguardo? Quale sarà la prossima lingua che cercherai di imparare?
Rainer Ganahl: At this point I’m mostly studying Chinese and will try to get better in it. I just spent one month in Shanghai studying and working on a video that will also play in Venice. In this video entitled, “Wo jiao Rainer”(My name is Rainer”, I introduce myself in Chinese dressed in an “I love NY, A.I.G.bonuses” T-shirt while explaining what I’m doing and working on. I pretended to have worked for A.I.G. – the biggest American insurance and financial service company in the world that received billions of bailout money from the government – and have received parts of the 65 million bonuses distributed to the bosses upon receipt of their bailout money. I explained that Obama forced me to repay it and that now I’m forced again to be an artist. Having no idea what to do as an artist, I just started studying Chinese. Thus the relationship to my installation of 1999 in Venice becomes even more apparent since I also included a “Ni hao” introduction video at the time. Currently I don’t envision learning more languages, but would rather prefer to improve the once I have engaged with already.
Chiara Agnello: Che formazione hai? Quali sono state le tue fonti di ispirazione?
Rainer Ganahl: I studied philosophy and history and then continued with fine arts with Peter Weibel in Vienna before finishing with Nam June Paik in Düsseldorf. I also attended the Whitney Independent Study Program in New York which made me relocate to the USA where I have been living for nearly 20 years. I also had the chance to attend seminars by Edward Said and Gayatri Spivak at Columbia University in the early 1990s which were quite important for me. My entire Seminar/Lecture series is not only an artistic but also some kind of “ongoing education program” as much as my “language studies” might serve as Alzheimer prevention.i could joke ”I don’t sell much but I learn something.. My “sources of inspiration” are simply my interest in the world, in society - “what goes on around me” – but also my being alive, my curiosity towards people and (other) cultures and various pleasure principles. I myself don’t need a financial crisis to enjoy food, life and people.
other t-shrit projects